Lesson Five

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 17:40

    Tristyn looked up for the third time at the last few papers trickling in. At least these all had names.

    "Ms. McNeely, pray define magic in the context you write it in? Are Potions not "magic"? Please also team up with Ms. Cotgrave to convince me why a charm cannot change the texture of an object. 6 points to Slytherin."

    "Ms... Lestrange, I'm assuming. Please check your quill, it doesn't seem to know how to spell your name. I see a distinct lack of living things being charmed in your paper. Please research on the difference between an object and a human succumbing to a charm. 5 points to Ravenclaw."

    "Ms. Valencia, your quill seems to be in on the conspiracy too. At least, I don't remember asking about "char". Please elaborate on your "physical form" comment. Seeing as charms have been known to both increase and decrease the weight/mass of an object. 7 points to Gryffindor."

    Having finished, the man addressed the students at large. "From all of your answers, I can see that you've not grasped the basic theory of magic. What is Magic, where does it come from? Why can we manipulate it and not the Muggles? These are all questions you should know the answer to by now seeing as it's impossible to progress without knowing."

    Flicking his wand casually to the blackboard, the wizards pointed behind his head to the sheet that now hung there.

    "As you can see, it was Merlin who first suggested that Magic exists in the environment, meaning, there is an unending supply of it around us. He later theorized that wizards and witches were born with the inherent ability to detect that magic. The theory was later amended to include certain types of flora and fauna as well."

    "Asbastoff however, directly opposed Merlin and held that there is no such thing as Magic in the environment. That certain creatures are simply born as a result of genetic mutations and can therefore control their surroundings through a purely mental process yet largely untapped," he continued. He had no doubt more than one head would be drooping all too close to the desk at the end of class but it was better to get the tedious fundamentals out of the way first.

    "Merlin's theory is the one that holds most stock these days though that doesn't mean Asbastoff was wrong. Now, keeping these two views in mind, can anyone tell me the flaw in both these theories?"

    "And those still working on their papers, please listen to the class discussion for a while. You can hand in your work at the end," he added as an afterthought.





    Last edited by Tristyn Malfoy on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 18:02; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 17:49

    Mary listened to Professor and took notes on what he was saying. She had never heard of this Asbastoff, so it was all new and interesting to her. She checked her notes and raised her hand to answer his question.
    "Mary McNeely, sir. I think the mistake they were both making is to not listen to one another. They both thought their theory is the one that it right. However, I believe they were both right. One cannot do magic unless he's born with it, but also, not only because he was born with it." Mary said, wanting to say more on the subject, but her her thought ended here. She was hoping very much he understood what she wanted to say.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 19:12

    Samantha raised her hand shyly from the back of the class.

    "Samantha Quill, Sir, the argument is the basic Nativism versus Empiricism one. Simply put, it's nature versus nurture. One wizard believes that certain living beings grow up to detect magic while another believes that magic in innate in that being as opposed to filched off the environment. The flaws with both theories are the same, they are incomplete and do not explain everything that goes on in our world. For instance, a Muggle can have all the potion ingredients he/she wants but he/she still wont be able to do anything with it. Similarly, magical environments have been known to exist but are uninhabitable by both wizards and Muggles alike, such as the Bermuda triangle."

    "So in short..." the girl blushed. "Mary said it a lot more simply. Both are correct in their own ways."


    Last edited by Samantha Quill on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 19:32; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 19:17

    One thing that Alex found really funny and weird about the whole thing was that if both of the thinkers were correct, then why had not anybody figured that out and made a theory using both the ideas? So, she tentatively raised her hand and asked,

    "If both of them were correct, and we know it now, so why isn't there a theory using both of the basic ideas of the two philosophers? Would it not be easier to use someone else's hard work to get glory for yourself?"


    Last edited by Alexandria Black on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 21:41; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 19:26

    Lauren listened to the discussion and looked up when Alexandria spoke her question. That was an interesting though. Lauren wondered the same thing about these two theories. Was there someone that decided to put the two ideas together to create a more concise explanation of how magic worked in our surroundings?

    Lauren looked up at Professor Malfoy, eagerly awaiting his answer.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 19:41

    Cat listened eagerly. Now this was something interesting! Alex's question was pertinent- though no one really liked a compromise. Look at Caesar and Pompey...

    She shook her head to clear her thoughts. Charms, not Ancient Rome. Magical theory, not civil war. She tuned in to the discussion. When she heard more, her comments would be valued. As it was, she didn't know enough.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 21:06

    Dimitri's hand rose slowly. "Professor. I believe that some of the students are not looking at the question in the way you intend. You are not proposing which may be right or wrong, but rather what flaws exist in each theory."

    "Merlin's theory is oversimplified. If magic were simply another part of nature, it would not be as limited as we find it. For example, there are many creatures in the mundane world that would benefit from magical abilities, but evolution along those paths has not occured. The second flaw is that magic flies directly in the face of nature. For example, the Gubraithian Fire completely defies natural law. It is a fire that burns indefinately, but combustion is a chemical reaction that requires both fuel and air. The creation of this flame is entirely not possible in the physical world, so Merlin's explaination falls short."

    "However, Asbastoff's theory is flawed as well. In order for there to be a significant mutation in order for magic to become apparent, it would need to be carried in the body, but there is no discernable difference between the physiology of Muggles and those who can use magic. If magic was a trait of mutation, it would need to be passed on by the parents, but Muggles can give birth to the magically able. Also, a significant mutation even on an unnoticable level usually prohibits the mutated strain from breeding successfully with pure stock, but Muggles can still have children with Witches and Wizards."

    One of the first debates Dimitri's mother had started him on was why could he use magic but a Muggle not. As a healer, she had studdied the question and was curious to see what her son would make of it. When his answer had been 'I don't know, just because,' she had set about trying to educate him.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 22:18

    "Actually, if I had to take a guess, I would say Merlin's theory made more sense in terms of Gubraithian Fire and other Everlasting Charms. I mean, seeing as there's nothing else to fuel it including the original caster, it must feed off of the magic in the environment," Samantha suggested softly. She had only said hello to the boy once in the dungeons and didn't know him well. But he did make good points in class.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 22:23

    "But is the magic that is fueling the fire coming from inside the caster or is the caster manipulating the environment around the fire to make it burn? In both the cases, there is a caster needed right? And Merlin said that wizards can only detect it, not manipulate it. So in my opinion, that is the flaw in Merlin's theory. " Alex asked. Though it made a whole lot of sense there were a lot loose ends in these theories too.

    She did not know why, but she felt as if she was back in one of her History of Magic classes.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 22:32

    "In cases of Everlasting Charms, the caster can die but his spell won't," Samantha tried to clarify. "That would mean that the caster is no longer fueling it. What else then could it be if not magic in the environment?" the girl pondered, almost to herself. She couldn't help feeling the Professor was playing with them somehow.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sat 14 Aug 2010, 22:40

    "It does not? that is seriously cool!" Alex almost squealed in delight. Almost. She had always wondered that if she would die and people would not take good care of her, in the end she could cast a locking spell on her belongings and no one will ever be able to open it!

    "But even then, the caster is the one that, well, casts the spell. Before it, the spell would not last forever, it would not even exist. So what role does the caster play in whole casting, if in the end, the spell would survive on energy of its surroundings?" Alex mused as she dropped her chin on her hand.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 01:02

    Cat spoke up. "Sorry to break in, but spells lose power over time don't they? No spell could last for an infinite time- there is no truely everlasting charm, only ones that stay on for a heck of a long time." She paused. "Um, so that would imply that the strength of the person casting it determines the spell, not necessarily the environment that it's in, though it could be a factor."

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 01:10

    "True but then how would you explain objects like the sorting hat and the diadam which have been around for over a thousand years? And many things down in the Museum of Historical Relics are even older than that," Samantha asked softly.

    "I think... that just like the way wizards are able to leave a part of themselves behind in portraits and ghosts, they can use the same concept on an Everlasting Charm. Of course, it must be quite taxing... but perhaps they make a deal with the environment somehow..."

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 01:16

    "So in the end, we reach the same point again. The object may take use up the 'magic' from the environment, but only because there is a bit of the wizard left in it? Like...what do you call them...yes...hocruxes? Maybe, thats why the Sorting Hat is there, because it contains a bit of a spirit of the wizard, thats why it has got a brain. but unlike hocruxes, the spirit lives up in the hat?" Alex asked, even more confused.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 01:19

    "You mean they start the spell- perhaps only start it and leave it open ended, so it could maybe, um," Cat frowned. She could get this out. "So witches and wizards start the spell- provide a magical catalyst so to speak, but with things like everlasting charms and the sorting hat they draw the energy they need from the environment around them." Cat nodded to herself, that made sense. "I mean, Hogwarts is a magically charged environment- it's bound to have picked some up. It's like environments with magical people absorb magical energy and these spells and objects feed off it."

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 01:27

    Mary listened with her eyebrows raised and was taking notes with almost lightining speed. She had absolutely no idea why and if there are everlasting charms, but she wanted to find out. She wanted to hear what their professor thought about that, though Mary thought Sam and Dimitri had a good point.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 01:33

    "But what exactly is that catalyst? A part of their own soul? conscious? a thing that has slowly started gaining consciousness by itself? Or adaptation? Or is it just the environment? Whatever it is, it is definitely related to the caster, because as Cat and Samantha said, not everyone can cast an everlasting charm." Ales said, looking around the class.

    Why is not anyone else joining in?

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 01:48

    "Maybe the catalyst is the spell itself." Cat said, getting into the swing of things now. "The magic is in the environment, and the longer lasting charms feed off of that, but the beginning comes from the caster- the caster's own magic. Asking that is like asking what part of the witch or wizard is the magic." she frowned. "Actually that is a good question. What part of the with or wizard is magic?" She looked up at the teacher. "Professor? Is there any study into that or something?"

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 01:57

    "Would not wand making be called a study for that? I mean does not the wand chose the wizard? Why does it chose that particular wizard? Actually, why does it chose that particular wizard?" Alex questioned, she seemed to be asking a lot of questions in this class, as she took out her wand and fingered it.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 02:00

    Cat grinned. "Excellent point. What does a wand see in a wizard? Does it recognise the magic- if so, how? Where does the magic in wands come from-" Cat stopped and frowned. "Actually scratch that last part, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they're not actively magic, only channels. Still. It opens up a whole line of questions."

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 02:04

    "But then why cannot wizards use anything else other than wands to channel their energy? What is it, that makes a wand special for a wizard, or a witch for that matter? I mean we cannot just break off any branch from any tree and use it? Every wizard has a specified wood type, a specific core, but I guess, we are straying from the topic." Alex frowned as she ended, feeling more and more confused.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 02:08

    Cat laughed. "Not quite off topic just yet. Caster or environment? The fact that wands are channels suggests caster, but the very nature of wands suggests environment. Um, wands can only come from a certain type of tree. Environment- probably very high magically charged environments, seeings as they're the natural inhabitant of... bowtruckles?" Cat furrowed her brow. That book had been a long time ago. She shook her head. "It's all a question of where the magic comes from. Us or the world. Which bled into which?"

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 02:17

    "then we would not stop as of yet." Alex said with a grin. "ookay the wands come from the enviornment but Potions do not use wands, yet they require magic. Meaning that a wizard can only concoct a potion, a muggle, thought they may have the same ingredients cannot brew one." Alex said with a frown as she tried to remember what Professor Green had said.

    "Wait! If the environment contains a charged force known as magic, and the environment is made up of everything in it. Don't we form a part of our immediate environment? Meaning, we also contain a little bit of the 'magic'?"

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 02:24

    Cat sat up straight and clapped her hands together. "Like evolution! Kind of." She waved them in the air. "the meteor. Origins. Science. Wait. I'm babbling. Rewind, restart." she shook her head. "We're made up of the environment, which would suggest magic comes from there. However, what if the humanity is what made the magic? Or it came in later? Entered through some kind of- I don't know. Evolution maybe?" she sank back into her seat, lost in thought.

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    Re: Lesson Five

    Post by Guest on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 02:30

    "If evolution is what made up magic," Alex stated slowly, "Then is not Asbastoff correct? Did he not state something about adaptation and genetic modification and stuff like that? And if magic is in the environment, then environment has and always will, exist. Made up of whatever, but still existing.

    "So if we say that magic came with humanity, then we support Asbastoff, but if we say that magic has always existed and certain sections of the humanity just learned to use it, then we support Merlin. But according to professor, none of them are exactly correct, so the answer lies in the age of magic and thats why no one could figure out the exact answer?" Alex said, she was enjoying herself now.

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